RAYZOON

I'm talking to a drummer about using his TD-10 module to record his MIDI performance to Cubase AI 7. He's never used MIDI before, and I've never thought about a TD-10 before. It would have to be on my laptop at his place, I believe. Also, because it is at his place, and I am the consumer in this relationship, I don't have a lot of opportunity to troubleshoot, set up, etc. So I'd like be as prepared as possible to program his TD-10 before I even walk in the door for the first time.

What I'd like to wind up with is a complete MIDI performance recorded in Cubase AI 7, which I can take home, load into my Cubase 7.5.40, and route to a drum VSTi (Jamstix, or EZ Drummer 2, etc.), so I can select the drum sounds, and possibly edit the MIDI data.




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I've read the TD-10 manual, and some thoughts/comments/questions I have already are (page #s refer to the downloaded TD-10 manual):

1. There's nothing about a computer in the manual (too old?), but I think I would follow the instructions on page 122, "Using pads to play an external MIDI sound module", and replace "external sound module" with "laptop that Cubase AI is loaded on" ... is that correct?

2. Or would it be better to just record his performance as a TD-10 pattern, then Bulk Dump into Cubase, as described on page 121?

3. Someone elsewhere said the data might need to be thinned to prevent Cubase from crashing ... page 124 in the section "MIDI settings for the entire TD-10" talks about thinning out pedal data ... has anyone found that needs to be activated for Cubase?

4. Is synchronization important here, does Cubase need to be set as a slave, and the TD-10 as a master (page 130)?
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Has anyone done anything like this before? If so ... please give me some words of wisdom ... thanks!!




(Parenthetically, re: MIDI timing ... there are at least a few Cubase threads floating around about possible really bad MIDI timing. I've never been bothered by it because I'm a keyboard player , but maybe with drums this becomes more important? ... is this whole idea of recording drum-accurate MIDI data into Cubase AI a dumb one, should I just forget this whole idea?)

I've recorded midi from a TD8 into Reaper before, so I'll share my somewhat relevant experience.
1. Record the audio out from the drum module in addition to the midi. This will let you verify your mapping matches what the drummer intended to play (e.g., if you accidentally map the Tom to the crash, you tell in a hurry ).
2. If the drummer permits, and the song allows, record to a click track. While I suspect you can create a tempo map after the fact, it's much easier to do it up front. Not all drummers will go for that, though.
3.you really won't have to program the td10. It should be set to output Midi out of the box. You will likely need a 5 pin midi connection. What audio interface are you using?
4.there may be a map that someone already created to go from td10 to Jamstix. I just did a brief Google but didn't turn up anything. Worst case is you need to create your own map. This is where the audio recording will come in handy.

When I did this, I was using Addictive Drums which had a pre-made map. I did have to make a few tweaks though.

Last, think about how the drummer will be monitoring. He won't like it if there's a lot of latency. This is another reason to use the drum brain audio. I'm assuming your interface has direct monitoring.

It just occurred to me - don't you have jamstix so you don't NEED a live drummer?

Kevin_W wrote:I've recorded midi from a TD8 into Reaper before, so I'll share my somewhat relevant experience.
1. Record the audio out from the drum module in addition to the midi. This will let you verify your mapping matches what the drummer intended to play (e.g., if you accidentally map the Tom to the crash, you tell in a hurry ).
2. If the drummer permits, and the song allows, record to a click track. While I suspect you can create a tempo map after the fact, it's much easier to do it up front. Not all drummers will go for that, though.
3.you really won't have to program the td10. It should be set to output Midi out of the box. You will likely need a 5 pin midi connection. What audio interface are you using?
4.there may be a map that someone already created to go from td10 to Jamstix. I just did a brief Google but didn't turn up anything. Worst case is you need to create your own map. This is where the audio recording will come in handy.

When I did this, I was using Addictive Drums which had a pre-made map. I did have to make a few tweaks though.

Last, think about how the drummer will be monitoring. He won't like it if there's a lot of latency. This is another reason to use the drum brain audio. I'm assuming your interface has direct monitoring. ...

That's great, Kevin, thanks!

He'll be listening to his audio straight out of the TD-10, so no latency. Great suggestion to record the audio into Cubase as well, thanks.

My interface (Steinberg UR28M) doesn't have a 5-pin DIN connector, so I will either have to buy a simple 5-pin - to - USB connector to get the MIDI drum data into my computer (about $40), or for about $80 more, buy an interface like the UR22 (5-pin MIDI in). [Dumb question here ... does the USB cable from an interface like that carry the audio and the MIDI data simultaneously to the computer?]

Kevin_W wrote: It just occurred to me - don't you have jamstix so you don't NEED a live drummer?

Yeah, but my Jamstix drummer (Stewart) has to go to rehab again, so I have to fall back on Plan B, a live drummer!

How will the drummer hear the rest of the channels if it is listening to his direct outs? Just my own curiosity.
I have never used one of those USB to midi cables, but I have heard plenty of bad reports about them. Do you already have experience with that? If not, definitely test it before the session.
A midi cable will only carry midi data.

I'm not sure how many audio inputs you have available, but the td10 has 8 direct outs if you can use them. Here's a thread I found about a potential setup.

http://duc.avid.com/showthread.php?t=252791

Last, you mentioned that you are the consumer in this arrangement. Does part of what you are buying include a little advice from the drummer? Has he ever recorded his drums before? What has he found as a good setup? Does he maybe have a some other equipment you can use (like the midi/USB cable you mention?)

Kevin_W wrote:How will the drummer hear the rest of the channels if it is listening to his direct outs? Just my own curiosity.

I have been working through this in my head lately. I'm thinking: TD-10 audio output>DAW which has the stereo mixdown of the backing track on playback> interface headphone out back to the drummer's headphones.

Kevin_W wrote:I have never used one of those USB to midi cables, but I have heard plenty of bad reports about them. Do you already have experience with that? If not, definitely test it before the session.
A midi cable will only carry midi data.

Will test this weekend, sending MIDI data from my keyboard through one of those cables, into my DAW.

Kevin_W wrote:I'm not sure how many audio inputs you have available, but the td10 has 8 direct outs if you can use them. Here's a thread I found about a potential setup.

http://duc.avid.com/showthread.php?t=252791

I have a Steinberg UR28M, so I can't handle that many inputs. The TD-10 has way more than 8 outputs anyway (11 or 12, if I'm understanding the top panel properly, and also looking at the MIDI mapping as well), so the eight outputs would, if I'm understanding correctly, mean I'd have to group several audio signals together within the TD-10 for each audio output. Could be done, but another layer of tinkering, with all the problems that could involve. I think the only audio I'm going to record is the TD-10 stereo out, as you suggested above .

Kevin_W wrote: Last, you mentioned that you are the consumer in this arrangement. Does part of what you are buying include a little advice from the drummer? Has he ever recorded his drums before? What has he found as a good setup? Does he maybe have a some other equipment you can use (like the midi/USB cable you mention?)

He's never worked with MIDI before. I will be talking with him later this week, from what we've briefly discussed it sounds like he may have recorded audio. Definitely not MIDI though.



Thanks for the link, I'll take a look!