Bar View Proposal - Suggestions/Comments Needed

Post by **Ralph @ Rayzoon** » Sat Mar 12, 2016 9:04 am

A user in our community, ckurz_7000, has brought up some ideas toward an expanded bar view. If you have any comments or suggestions concerning this idea, please use this thread to collaborate. Here's the idea:

[b:60bb5452c5]Quoting ckurz_7000[/b:60bb5452c5]:
I suggested that what would really help me would be a way in which I could easily do stuff to a collection of bars at the same time. "Stuff" here could be selecting a range of bars and moving them around. Or expanding a part by inserting a certain number of bars. Easily applying certain style/brain/groove settings to a range of bars. Or maybe splitting one part into two, changing the power level, etc. The list is really quite long of what I could potentially use this expanded song view for.

I envisioned a kind of matrix arrangement of little rectangles, where rectangles belonging to the same part share a common color (see below).

[img:60bb5452c5]https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1559/251 ... 8da4_z.jpg[/img:60bb5452c5]

Each rectangle would be labelled by its bar number as well as show me if there is a groove/accent/fill already composed for it. I would like to see all three aspects in one view rather than having to choose different views (as is currently the case with JS3).

I see myself using standard Windows techniques of selecting a collection of rectangles. This would entail using a selection rectangle, Shift/Ctrl-clicking etc.

With the selection I want to be able to cut/copy/paste it/its style/drummer as well as drag it some other place for a new arrangement of bars.

I would like to be able to zoom the view using standard techniques (e.g. the mouse wheel) so that I can see the entire song or just a couple of bars. The details showing in each rectangle would adjust according to the zoom level. Zooming way into a bar would seamlessly switch to the bar editor view. So this big work area empowers me to play with my song and examine it in different ways. It would be a great improvement to my workflow.

jimgue_77 · Post by **jimgue_77** » Sat Mar 12, 2016 9:57 am

I think this would be a nice addition and help functionally. Good idea. I know some like the new 3-D kit, some don't . Maybe there could be an option to have that space occupied by either the kit or this sort of bar editor.

ckurz_7000 · Post by **ckurz_7000** » Sat Mar 12, 2016 10:35 am

I just wanted to say that the sketch above is just that: a crude sketch. Each rectangle would display more information, depending on the zoom level. When I have some time at hand I'm going to expamd on this some more.

-- Chris.

Kevin_W · Post by **Kevin_W** » Sat Mar 12, 2016 10:57 am

I really like the idea of seeing what parts are groove, fills, etc, without having to switch to the particular mode. It's sort of a Navigator (I realize the proposal is much more than that.)

I also would welcome a cut/paste/insert functionality as suggested.

And maybe other information could also be added, perhaps toggled on/off for each bar, such as the drummer/style/kit/part type, etc. is applied to each bar.

The ability to zoom in/out directly in this view would be cool, but even if it was just a navigation/arrangement display to start with, I think it would be extremely helpful.

Thanks for asking!

alexis · Post by **alexis** » Sat Mar 12, 2016 12:32 pm

Ralph [RZ] wrote:A user in our community, ckurz_7000, has brought up some ideas toward an expanded bar view. If you have any comments or suggestions concerning this idea, please use this thread to collaborate. Here's the idea:

[b:e6a92b028f]Quoting ckurz_7000[/b:e6a92b028f]:
I suggested that what would really help me would be a way in which I could easily do stuff to a collection of bars at the same time. "Stuff" here could be selecting a range of bars and moving them around. Or expanding a part by inserting a certain number of bars. Easily applying certain style/brain/groove settings to a range of bars. Or maybe splitting one part into two, changing the power level, etc. The list is really quite long of what I could potentially use this expanded song view for.
...
[img:e6a92b028f]https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1559/251 ... 8da4_z.jpg[/img:e6a92b028f]...

[quote=7382 ). I *love* the idea of parts being represented as bars that can be dragged, copied, pasted, etc.

I would like to be able to zoom the view using standard techniques (e.g. the mouse wheel) so that I can see the entire song or just a couple of bars. The details showing in each rectangle would adjust according to the zoom level. Zooming way into a bar would seamlessly switch to the bar editor view. So this big work area empowers me to play with my song and examine it in different ways. It would be a great improvement to my workflow.

Yes indeed, this is very nice as well.

Thinking about it, the comments seem to me to be in a sense asking for the GUI to become more standard in terms of "DAW world". I think that's a great idea, and would make the instinctive usability of JS *much* higher ... and in turn make it **much** more fun to use!

Thank you, ckurz_7000, for the thought and time to conceive of this, and put it down on paper! And thank you, Ralph, for highlighting it!

gmon72 · Post by **gmon72** » Sat Mar 12, 2016 10:21 pm

Color coding parts somewhat like how Groove Agent 4 colors patterns is definitely helpful. Making changes to selected blocks at a time would also be welcome.

Azimuth (Archive) · Post by **Azimuth (Archive)** » Sat Mar 12, 2016 11:22 pm

It's not a bad idea Chris but what about adding it as a separate tabbed window similar to song/kit/mixer as now exists? I think that would satisfy the workflow of all involved but am unsure what implementing such an idea would involve from Rayzoon's perspective. I do agree that following the Windows/Apple standards for copy/cut/paste/move would be ideal for quick editing.

ckurz_7000 · Post by **ckurz_7000** » Sun Mar 13, 2016 12:27 pm

Adding another tabbed view is certainly a possibility. Whether there is a better one, you'd might want to take a close look at all functions within the framework of a so-called funtional matrix. One dimension being the functions in a hierarchical view (top-level to basic) and the different workflows as the second dimension (looking at how different functions are interrelated for certain uses). You will quickly see where the bottlenecks are and what you have to do to unburden the user.

The other aspect is to build as much as possible on user interactions which have already become standard metaphors for certain tasks. For example, selection rectangles, zooming, shift-clicking, double-clicking, cut/copy/paste, etc.

I am happy that Ralph allows for such discussions and hope he takes these comments and concerns seriously.

-- Chris.

Azimuth (Archive) · Post by **Azimuth (Archive)** » Sun Mar 13, 2016 5:47 pm

Hey Chris, You're absolutely correct regarding Ralph and this forum. I can count on one hand the number of developers I'm aware of who support and encourage such user involvement to such a level.
My perspective on other users desired changes is probably skewed somewhat because Jamstix truly just "clicked" with me from the beginning. To me it was very intuitive but I also do have some experience working with drummers.That might be part of the reason why it all just makes sense and seems intuitive.

Joe_S · Post by **Joe_S** » Sun Mar 13, 2016 7:53 pm

It kinda reminds me of an old Amiga program SuperJam!, notably the Song and part editor. The Part editor is at the top, which shows the bars that make up the part. The song editor is in the lower right, which each part is represented by a block who's length is relative to the number of bars in the part. I always loved this method of editing, as you can copy move parts around. It also allowed for linked and unlinked part clones, where linked parts keeps the settings the same, while unlinking allows them to change independently.

[img:ac14a4e065]http://www.boomstickjoes.com/images/superJam.jpg[/img:ac14a4e065]