What does "in the pocket mean" in JS?

[Joe_S]

The ac/dc song is what a good example of what the pocket control is used for. For that I would use the pocket control (turn it to the left) to put the drums behind the pocket. It will delay the composed hits but not affect note choice. It acts like a time offset.

The children song's early downbeat cannot be done with the pocket control. You can use the microtiming adjustments, but its easy to wipe them out by accident and very tedious. The swing feel (the pocket or groove) would come from the style. The pocket control would be on center as the drums are in the pocket.

[alexis]

The ac/dc song is what a good example of what the pocket control is used for. For that I would use the pocket control (turn it to the left) to put the drums behind the pocket. It will delay the composed hits but not affect note choice. It acts like a time offset.

The children song's early downbeat cannot be done with the pocket control. You can use the microtiming adjustments, but its easy to wipe them out by accident and very tedious. The swing feel (the pocket or groove) would come from the style. The pocket control would be on center [b:529cb31504]as the drums are in the pocket.[/b:529cb31504]

[size=18:529cb31504][/size:529cb31504]


... defined as ... how?

Thanks for the explanation. In my (small-ish) mind, I have the idea that "in the pocket" means steadily later than the beat, like AC/DC above. But that doesn't hold water if an *early* kick (as in the kiddie song) is also in the pocket ...

So what is "in the pocket", and what isn't?

Signed, Strawfer Braynes

[Joe_S]

The "in the pocket" means "in time with the groove of the song". One part sets up the groove. It can be anything but is usually the bass or drums but it can be a rhythm guitar, keyboards, etc. All the other instruments follow the established groove. When they are locked in, they are "in the pocket". When an instrument plays ahead, behind or outside, it is "out of pocket". Eulidian rhythms can be considered examples of playing outside the pocket, where an instrument is neither ahead nor behind but completely outside the groove of the song.

The childrens song (with the exception of the section with the early kick), the drums are in the pocket. The time is a straight 4/4 but the groove has a swing to it and not a straight equally spaced rhythm. All of the rhythm parts (guitar, bass and drums) and locked together. In this example, the rhythm guitar is setting up the groove while the bass are locked into the groove and are both in the pocket.

The ac/dc song, the drums are behind the pocket. The time is straight 4/4 and the groove is also straight 4/4, with a marching feel. The bass and rhythm guitars "set up the groove" which is defining what the pocket is. The drums drag behind the pocket, building tension.

[alexis]

The "in the pocket" means "in time with the groove of the song". One part sets up the groove. It can be anything but is usually the bass or drums but it can be a rhythm guitar, keyboards, etc. All the other instruments follow the established groove. When they are locked in, they are "in the pocket". When an instrument plays ahead, behind or outside, it is "out of pocket". Eulidian rhythms can be considered examples of playing outside the pocket, where an instrument is neither ahead nor behind but completely outside the groove of the song.

The childrens song (with the exception of the section with the early kick), the drums are in the pocket. The time is a straight 4/4 but the groove has a swing to it and not a straight equally spaced rhythm. All of the rhythm parts (guitar, bass and drums) and locked together. In this example, the rhythm guitar is setting up the groove while the bass are locked into the groove and are both in the pocket.

The ac/dc song, the drums are behind the pocket. The time is straight 4/4 and the groove is also straight 4/4, with a marching feel. The bass and rhythm guitars "set up the groove" which is defining what the pocket is. The drums drag behind the pocket, building tension.

Thank you for this!

I am not a drummer, so some of what I am about to say is likely to be GIGO ...

But I could have sworn that in these forums there was a discussion about John Bonham, who apparently had a habit of playing either a little early or a little late (I can' t remember which one was said) ... and the description of that was, "He's a real pocket drummer".

That led me to believe that "in the pocket drumming" meant playing something that was not strictly with the groove, in the way that you so nicely describe the AC/DC song.

So ... just mistaken on my part? ... Bonham would not be considered an "in-the-pocket drummer"?

Thanks!

[Ralph @ Rayzoon]

In Jamstix, pocket refers to specific timing delays that are often found with professional drummers.

In the wild, 'pocket drummer' is often used to describe a drummer who plays a simple but effective groove that transmits a great rhythmic feel but leaves plenty of room for other instruments to 'fit in'.

Finally, a lot of people will say 'great pocket' whenever they hear a 16th shuffle (i.e. Gospel drummers)

[alexis]

[b:1babb99df9]In Jamstix, pocket refers to specific timing [size=18:1babb99df9]delays[/size:1babb99df9] that are often found with professional drummers.[/b:1babb99df9]...

Thank you!

And finally - "delays" always with a positive value in JS, i.e., always late?

[Ralph @ Rayzoon]

You can also move the pocket forward (turn pocket knob left of center) in which case the timing is earlier. Most drummers use delays but there are exceptions, like Stewart Copeland.

[alexis]

You can also move the pocket forward (turn pocket knob left of center) in which case the timing is earlier. Most drummers use delays but there are exceptions, like Stewart Copeland.

This keyboard player thanks you!